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Two years and rolling!
Thank you from all your faithful Minions!
Miss a Photo or Slideshow or Comment Thread? Party Recap Below:
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Congratulations EE - Messages From Your Minions
Portrait by Antony B
EE Partying Down With Minionites Chris And Robin
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EE has to repopulate the earth 'single-handedly.' No humans are left. Which does he choose?
116 comments:
Yay! Night caps.
Kiersten, nothing will ever be perfect. A month later, you'll wish you had written whole sections differently. After it's pub'd, you'll wonder why you put that ending on it. Then the next one comes out, and you don't care anymore.
I have another question, not a stupid one this time.
All of you who have had things published, do you start freaking out right before, cursing your excessive use of commas and wishing you had done one last edit?
Mama in her kerchief and I in my cap....
Sorry. Wrong time of year. Oi. I need sleep. See you guys tomorrow!
Phoenix, are you gonna have to stay up all night moving people from room to room?
Thanks for continuing the thread, Phoenix. I worked as an editor in school, so I think I'm hypercritical. But seriously, I have this bizarre love affair with commas and I should have focused more on that...
Oh well. I'm getting a story published! Let's just focus on that.
Night, Gutterball.
Kiersten, you never get it "perfect."
I used to drive myself insane worrying about stories, but when you have anywhere between five and twenty-five to do in three days, you learn to stop obsessing as much.
Nope, BT. I'm gonna set up one more room for the late nighters/early risers and leave it for them to figure out where to post. Then I'm gonna get up early and try to figure out how to archive all of today's stuff so we have a nice clean start for tomorrow. And get the new contests up -- yay!
Phoenix, I posted the limmerick, but I have really forgotten the rhythm.
8-8-5-5-8
Rhyme pattern a-a-b-b-a
Wow! Where do you publish, Julie?
(And yeah, this is my first published story, and actually only the second piece of fiction I've written as an adult, so I'm just jittery.)
Thanks, deleting first one.
Freaking out about commas i the editor's job, Kiersten :)
Now, do I edit stories that appeared years ago and have been forgotten, sure.
(And you know, Americans use too many commas, Australian's don't use enough.)
Nightcaps in the middle of the afternoon :=
Not bad for forgetting, Julie. Now you just have to put the best bribe in front of the judge and you're a shoe-in. Or in your case, maybe that's a knee-in?
Xenith, you are Aussie?
That's why you get mimosas, Xenith. But I guess it's really a little late for those there.
Phoenix, nope. The knee is mine unless another more lucrative body part becomes available. I will not be sharing the knee or using it to knee-in.
However, I am not adverse to bribing judges.
And thank you.
I used to be so good at the "when in doubt, leave it out" rule, but it's hard with creative writing because you try to follow the flow of a real voice, and real voices pause a lot.
So many Aussies! Why are Australians automatically so much cooler than Americans? (That's an observation, not a joke setup.)
On a more serious note, I really am surprised at how much help a person gets with EE's blog.
Kiersten, I agree. I hear dialogue in my head and there are a lot of pauses.
Not only is EE's criticism super helpful, but I'm delighted with the community of writers. And I've only been on the site a couple of weeks. I agree, it's great.
I'm just hoping that all of this partying doesn't delay his responses to the waiting queries...I want to get a move on, and mine is one waiting!
Yeah, Julie
*going to check what mimosas are*
Well, the party is only once a year.
I was working on a query, just so I could improve the synopsis, but it's still far from right. I had a lot of help from some blogger firends, but the concept is just not sinking in my thick skull.
I was off reading the political blogs
EE's usually pretty conscientious about getting stuff up quickly. Generally delays are more around not getting enough Guess the Plots for queries or Continuations for openings.
Nice thing about being pubbed is if your editor likes you, she doesn't make you query your second book.
Queries are odd beasts to write. They are part sales advert, part plot synopsis and need the writer's style.
'Night all! (Or 'Afternoon or 'Mornin') See y'all in a few hours.
Ah, but we have to get that editor/agent first...not all of us are big-shot authors ; )
My pub next month is just a short story in a journal. Still getting paid though! And it's a credential to write in those stupid queries.
Goodnight, Phoenix!
And yeah, queries are awful.
I started sending out short stories a year ago and it reached the point in summer that I was rewriting for editors and getting absolutely nowhere. It's like I had to satisfy some unknown standard or story wish. I got badly blocked and just stopped writing.
EE's blog helped me out of that.
Odd thing is, I have an affinity for writing the lowly query
Often thought I ought to start up a service
Holy mackerel! I missed round 5 and tried catching up in round 6, and now I find I'm behind in round 8?
Hi to all you who I missed earlier. Not that I'll hang around much. gotta get my kids to bed before they see any of the stuff in this here bar.
What started me writing any short story was a job where I had to turn out 4 or 5 technical factsheets of 500 words a day and I could only write a couple hundred words and hour. I started writing short stories at home to speed up my writing.
Now it's like analyzing experimental results. . . There's a pattern to it and I can reproduce the pattern
I did the agent search for my BFF (Big Fat Fantasy), and had no luck after about eight queries.
Then I thought, write the smut, get some cred. I wrote my first (50k words) in three months. Subbed it to one epublisher. Contract was offered less than two weeks later. I'll have four small e-novels out by next spring. I honestly don't know when I'll get back to my BFF. Truth be told, writing smut is a ton of fun.
Night, Phoenix.
Hot times in the comment trail.
It had something to do with EE's knees.
Hey pjd
Kirsten,
I'm to the point I think I would gladly pay someone to write a query.
Of course, the story may change radically after it goes through Barbara Rogan's workshop.
Fun isn't the write word. I shouldn't pu this in print but I enjoy writing more than sex anymore. Not to be lewd or silly.
I enjoy putting the words to paper and editing them down.
Course, short stories are a totally different beast. Me, I can't write anything less than about 35k, so I couldn't sell to magazines.
I really was just going to get some publishing credits to my name, but I'm starting to think erotica/romantica is where I belong.
Welcome back PJD and Dave.
Yes, that conversation was the bee's knees.
If you love it and it's working for you, why stop?
I write for kids because I'm a very strange adult, and I don't think I could write believable characters or dialogue.
For instance, I've never sworn in my life. Or tasted alcohol. Or coffee, for that matter. I met my husband at eighteen, married him at nineteen, and we have an incredibly even relationship with zero drama.
Not really good for literary fiction. So I write middle grade ; )
Didn't you just post a query on EE's blog, Julie?
I enjoy the story. The problem is I see much of it as a movie and it is getting it from movie form to the page in an engaging way.
Dave, no, I haven't had the guts to post it there. I did one in Merry Monteleone's blog.
Mid Grade stuff is plentiful. I'm still buying it for nephews and nieces.
If you go hunting in EE's archives, you'll probably find the odd query rewrite by me in the comments.
It's a lot easier to encapsulate someone else's story than your own, though. Easier to know what must be included and what can be left out.
You got 50 bucks? Send your story my way and I'll do you up a blammo query.
Kiersten, I love writing my children's books.
I just didn't have success publishing and put my fiction writing on the shelves for ten years.
All right, ten bucks, lol!
lol, Julie. I'm so nervous about mine coming up, I actually dreamed about it last night. At first when I looked at it, there was no blue, and I got really excited--it was so well done he couldn't make fun of it! Then I scrolled down and there was about a page of blue text, the point of which was that my plot was so banal and stupid he had lost all faith in humanity.
So, no matter what he says, it can't be worse than my subconscious has already made it!
Kid's books. Like I said, 35k words or more. Even without the cussing and sex, I can't keep within the parameters.
Kirsten
When I finish the workshop I am taking you up on that.
I did a firsts workshop at Books and Writers and we decided it would be best to open with the killing of the king's guard instead of talking about it later. So, now I have an entirely new first chapter.
I'm fairly certain there will be other dramatic changes before the new workshop is done.
You know, if your editor hated it that much, they'd just reject it, Kiersten!
You really need to try one of these beers...
You're right, Kirsten, it is really hard to condense a story when it's your own--you're too involved.
If things don't go well on EE, I might just take you up on that.
The query offer, not the beer ; )
Dang! I guess I shouldn't have lowered my price, huh?
35K isn't bad. I feel really bad when I start to read some of the stuff that people take from 150K and larger fantasies. Hard to comment on that.
Kiersten;
One thing I have learned is there will always be edit so it's best just to get ready for it.
A couple of tricks that help are to print it out in a different font so your eye doesn't gloss over things as much. Next, read your story into a recorder and listen to it. Your ear picks up on things your eye doesn't.
Kirsten,
You make me laugh.
I'm a horse trader. I would have dickered with you. Maybe. I don't know. I hate queries with a passion.
Better not think about it. I might offer you more.
My BFF is 210k and still not totally finished. It will eventually be three books.
I am learning a lot about good writing doing erotic romance/fantasy, so I'll probably do extensive rewrites of it before I try subbing it out again. I might even put back all the sex I've forced myself to take out of it and sub it as fantasy with erotic/romantic elements. who knows?
Stephen King's book on writing has a nice chapter on cutting down word length.
I had page limits and technical text when I learned it at work. Now, everything I read has too many words. I have to turn that part of the brain off to make it through a book.
Paladin will be a five-book series, but the first one is still hitting around 130,000 words.
I know I will have to butcher it, but it's hard. Not that I write like George R. R. Martin, but my story is pretty convoluted with a lot of characters.
It is possible to write 200k without a wasted word, but most of the time I'd say that isn't the case.
I find now I have a hard time reading prolific authors, because their editors are either asleep or too chicken to tell them to cut the fat.
I've been told fantasy with erotic elements is hot, but I don't know.
GRRM is one of my faves, but I will admit to getting overwhelmed by the sheer number of words...
Erotic fantasy is hot. I don't know why. but it is.
Kirsten;
I agree and I know Paladin will be sliced and diced. I've already chunked some of my darling scenes. I may wind up cutting the chapter from the ghost's pov. It's a short chapter, but if I have to start sacrificing, he may die again.
Erotic fantasy is hot. I don't know why. but it is.
Why not? It's fantasy. It's sex. What's not to like?
If I can offer a bit of advice - find a voice that you are comfortable with writing and stick with it. Don't try to write someone else's style for a few years or a few novels, maybe three or four and possibly over a hundred short stories.
I would say rather than cutting a chapter you like, just cut any redundant sentence, tighten every other one, and get rid of everything that doesn't need to be there.
But save it all so you can put it back if you change your mind!
I love Martin's writing, but he does kind of drive me nuts leaving off with one character and hopping to another. Of course, that keeps you turning pages. By the time you finish the next section, you've forgotten about the other one you were worried about.
I just started reading him a couple of weeks ago. Until then, I was very concerned about my story being too complex.
Dave's right.
Gotta find your own voice.
Wow, I feel like such a baby in here. I've written two short stories and one 40k word middle-grade novel...
I had better get the heck off of these blogs and get cracking ; )
Oh, I love that about GRRM, actually. Same with Guy Gavriel Kay. They get you to the point where you don't want to leave these guys, then you don't want to go back to them, cause it means leaving the next guys. It keeps you going through hundreds or even thousands of pages.
I finished a thriller and shelved it after I split the sheets with my former agents. Then I wrote the bones of another fantasy. In between were five children's books.
By now, I've realized I have a certain voice that carries through them all. I'm not really sure I could emulate anyone else well.
Heh, Kiersten, I said earlier I was writing a polyamorous "as we speak". Well, I'm in the middle of a three-person sex scene right now, and having a hard time keeping everyone's body parts straight.
Just set aside time to write and do it. That's the lonely world of the writer - a piece of paper, a bunch of characters and a plot.
Kirsten, I do like that about him now as well. If he weren't so compelling, I probably wouldn't finish him, though.
However, when every blasted chapter grabs you by the throat, what choice do you have but to follow?
lol. You guys are a bad influence. I thought of some dirty jokes on that one.
I'll stick to middle grade, I think ; )
Julie, if your story's fantasy, it can never be too complex. ;)
Writing is lonely, Dave.
I frequently lament that all my friends are imaginary, and my sex life is, too.
Kiersten, you just write.
I've been tempted to go to college and take some basic English classes just to get the mechanics straight in my head. My editor at the magazine said it's better to just write.
The only way to get better is to practice.
I listened to a talk by Stewart O'Nan at the local Borders and he described taking a very long time to write one of his books because he had to use a special voice. He said it took days to work through single pages and find the right words.
Doing that would kill the joy of writing for me unless, like O'Nan, I have several books published.
Of course, sometimes the best friends you can have are fictional...
I never agonize over the right wording. Sometimes I can sit and stare at the perfect sentence for hours, though, lol!
It's hard right now because my kids are so little that by the time I get an hour free in the evenings, I'm wiped out. And then if I start writing, it gets my mind going so much that I can't fall asleep, which means the next day will be even harder...
But you're right, it's just a matter of doing it. I'm a few chapters in to my next book; it's just a matter of being willing to make the sacrifices!
Julie, if your story's fantasy, it can never be too complex. ;)
laughs
Dare we hope?
In my thriller I had a scene where some Cajun cowboys always back their pickup into parking places at motels. Both of them are rather notorious womanizers so they sometimes have to leave in a hurry.
Some critters asked if that was really necessary to mention that. Yes, since that saves them from some hit men later, it is necessary.
I don't put a lot of details in without purpose.
Kiersten;
Find a quiet time that is just yours. Maybe when babies are napping or hubby can watch them for an hour or so.
Diana Gabaldon used to get up at 3:00 in the morning to write and then go back to bed.
I can't do that. I do write better in the morning, so I may start getting up earlier and writing before I go to work.
I have a war of attrition going with my husband right now as to who can do the least around the house. He's winning, but not by much, dammit!
Something always has to give. You make sure your kids aren't living in squalor, that they get fed at least every day (that's improtant), and then you write. The dishes, laundry, yard, shopping, etc, can all wait. Only boring people live in spotless houses.
Even if you only squeeze out 30 minutes a day before long you will have significant words down.
I never agonize over the right wording.
I'm the opposite. I agonize over every word.
Some critters asked if that was really necessary to mention that. Yes, since that saves them from some hit men later, it is necessary.
Even if they don't need to escape the hitmen, jeez, it's a little something called, um, correct me if I'm wrong here--"character development". Guh!
If that's the qualification, I'm not boring at all!
You guys rock. Thanks for the chatting. I'm off for the night, but I'll certainly be back tomorrow.
Goodnight!
Kirsten;
I'm not sure that's a war that can be won. I long for a spotless house, but it may have to wait until I can hire a housekeeper.
I reckon any scenes or chapters you cut can be put on your website when the book is published, and give reader a little extra when they go there.
Oh, Dave, you poor bastard! Agonize over every word? Ack.
My editor called my attention to a few little habits of mine, most prevalent during the steamy scenes. Other than that, I just make words. If they sound good, I keep them. If they sound stupid, I delete or change them. If, occasionally, they sound timeless and profound, I stare. Oooh, shiny...
I have to go sleep. Have a good night and I'll see you tomorrow.
xenith, that is a good point.
Also, there are points where the main story ends but a subplot might require a little capper. That's what the freebie on the website is for.
Xenith, I agree.
I never discard anything willingly. I did lose a 406-page novel when my computer crashed, but that's another story.
Oh, dave, don't go..
Night, Dave.
Dang it, me living on the west coast! Everyone goes to bed before me!
Wonder if Robin and Phoenix will be aghast at us turning EE's party into a writing discussion.
I'm central, but I don't sleep much anyway so might as well stay up a bit later and shoot the bull.
You bull-killer you!
Ohh, shoot the bull. Never mind, I was going to get all offended by your blatant animal cruelty...
OMG, 406 pages from a crash?!!
You poor thing...
Laugh. Yes, just call me Bull Killer.
Yeah, my poor Dancing Horses died a horrible death. The back up disk was corrupted so bye-bye thriller.
OMG. No idea what I would do. My kid once deleted a particularly poignant death scene back when I was using Windows 95 and MS works and there was no auto-retrieve. I had sat and written at least 8k, I was sobbing by the end of it I loved these two characters so much and had just murdered them so cruelly. And then my toddler comes up and shuts my computer off.
I was so drained from writing the scene I didn;t even yell at him. I just sighed and put my head in my hands.
Can't imagine losing a whole book. I'm so sorry...
Well, I have to be up in a few hours. I guess I better try to get some sleep.
I promised to have this book in my editor's hands in three days, so I should go too.
Yeah, I was pretty devastated by the loss.
I rewrote the first seventeen chapters, but it just kind of took the desire out of me. However, I may try it again someday. I like the story and the characters. What's not to like about skirt-chasing, Cajun cowboys with cute knees?
Not as cute as EE's, of course, but cute in a cowboy kind of way.
Night, Kirsten.
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